Gas refund for Warden depositor

Governance is a really big piece for the future in DeFi. Paladin is disrupting the actual system, and try to bring efficiency in Governance where, to often, they suffer of a big abstention.
Curve War is the masterpiece of all this Governance. But **“Small veCRV holders ** are left behind in this war for 2 reasons: They have a small voting power AND there is an expensive Gas Fees on Ethereum Mainnet. Their situation is the next one :

  • They can’t benefits from Bribes because of Expensive Gas Fees and low amount of veCRV locked, which involve a “small” amount of rewards
    paying 200$ to change vote directly on Chain to receive 20$ TOKEN, every week… It’s not sustainable in time)

  • They can’t move their CRV on Convex (or other) to maximize yield, because of the lock.

  • They loss their voting power with time, because of veTOKENOMICS system & the fact that they have a small amount in veCRV.
    Pay a 200$ transaction to earn 10 more veCRV, especially if they can’t benefits from bribes because of point 1.

So, all this voting power looks “lost”, or locked on 1 choice, no matter what will happen in the future.

But WARDEN looks to be a really good solution for Small veCRV Holders :

  • Vote right lending (paid in CRV)
  • Bring opportunity to Auto-coumpound fo sellers,

My opinion is : Warden will seduce lot of Small veCRV. They have only some transactions to do, and after that they will enjoy the Power of Warden.

But I guess some of them will be stopped by the Gas Fee.
Whales will not be afraid by Gas Fees, for sure. But there is less interest to deposit in Warden because they can directly benefits from Curve War with the Bribes system (for now).

To bring Warden the more attractive possible at its lauch, and help small veCRV holders to deposit on Warden, I think it’s a good idea to consider a ** Gas Refund System**.

The questions are :

  1. Do you think it’s a good idea ? Yes/No

If Yes :

  1. 1st:How much time will this program be set-up ? (1 week, 1 month, Other ?)
    2nd : What amount of money Paladin needs to spend on this program ? (it remove the question of the duration of the program : when all the dedicated budget is over, it’s the end of the program).

  2. In which token will the refund be done ? ($PAL, $ETH, $CRV, other ?)

  3. How can we avoid the abuse of bot & other ?

  4. How much of the treasury

  5. Other ?

This is an open discussion, fell free to agree or disagree but don’t forget to back-up and argue your answer.


Hey Nono, thank you for speaking out on these important issues.
We’re glad to see you share our excitement on the potential of Warden. In short, yes I agree that creating incentives for small holders is important.
Just a small correction, Warden, or any other dapp, can’t auto-compound veCRV, only you can do it, but we can ease the process via our interface.

Tbh I think it should be a multi month program as actual depositing is not that expensive (<50$ when gas is under 150). However, to prevent abuses I would add that you need to deposit for at least 6 weeks (duration TBD) to benefit from it.
Paying in ETH is not possible for now considering the state of our treasury. $PAL is the easy option, but depending on the success of Warden, doing it in $CRV is also thinkable.

From what we have learned with the launch of Paladin Lending, creating demand is much harder than supply, so I’d like to see more focus on incentivizing demand, but that is the topic of another proposal I guess.


To reduce the gas costs the devs might create a program to delegate $veCRV in Warden to someone else/ a set of parameters (decided via snapshot to save gas by small holders?) (for a fixed amount of time?), because why would big buyers bother with buying 100’s or 1000’s of $veCRV (as I understand it looking at the U.I.)? ‘Whales’ would be able to buy $veCRV in bulk, and save on gas fees, because the ‘whole’(?) cost would be significantly less than buying individual offers, which can be used to refund the 50-100 $ from shrimp-holders managed by a third party(sort of vault) to save even more on gas. If this is wrong/makes sense, tell me why, or why not, which might improve my understanding of this protocol as is.

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_No Auto-compound of veCRV : Understood.

Duration : If the Treasury can create a Multi-month program, it would be perfect. I suppose longer it is, bette is to drag liquidity (but not to long to avoid alternative to lunch maybe… Idk)

Token of the refund : I agree with the $PAL token.

  1. Easier for the treasury
  2. Reward depositor in capacity to take part in Paladin Governance, and have a great surprise if hold and the platform skyrocket.
    CRV can also be a way in the future to extend the program for exemple

Creating by incentivizing : demand > supply : I guess it must be keep in head, but it must be the topic of another proposal. And Cursor between the both will be set up after we finish the discussion and before a eventual snapshot.
It can be done by the budget for exemple : Incentivize 2x more or 3x more or 4x or… the demand instead of the supply.
Or with the mechanism : APR% in $PALS, Create bribes to push people to loan veCRV, Gas refund for loaners, or other, … We will see in another proposal.

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This is already in prod, bulk buy will be available very soon. However it might be a bit more expensive ETH-wise for borrower.